In this episode of Delivering, host Jason Rodriguez sits down with Oracle’s Jason Witt to talk about the critical partnership between creative and development teams and how better communication and organic workflows can drive innovation in email marketing.

Episode Transcript

Jason Rodriguez:
Welcome to Delivering: a podcast by the email industry from strategy to design, code to leadership, and everything in between. I’m your host Jason Rodriguez.

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So today, I’m joined by another Jason, Jason Witt, who is the Senior Creative Director for Oracle CX Marketing. And prior to Oracle, Jason was a Senior Creative Director at Epsilon, but in both roles, Jason leads teams of designers and developers, writers, content strategists, all those people making email to help clients deliver more effective email campaigns to their subscribers. So welcome to the podcast, Jason.

Jason Witt:
Thanks for having me. I’m excited about the conversation.

Jason Rodriguez:
Awesome. Yeah. So, I always like to start things off by hearing about guests… I guess your career in the marketing world and how you made your way to where you are right now. So, tell me a little bit about how you got started in email marketing, marketing in general and how you got to Oracle.

Jason Witt:
Yeah, for sure. So, it’s kind of a long road, but I’ll keep it brief. I’ve been in marketing for almost 20 years now. So, I started out in traditional marketing doing not so much offline, but mostly print and direct mail. I worked for an in-house agency for quite a while, over 10 years. And so, it was interesting coming out of that and into more of the agency world. And when I started at Epsilon, I walked into it into a position that was… they kind of scratched their heads and said, “Well, why do you want to come in and get your hands in the work?” And it was because email really was a channel that I hadn’t really dug into. And I said, “In order to be really versed in anything, I really want to get my hands in the work.”

Jason Witt:
So, I spent about the first year or so really fine tuning my skills around creative, and then also making those connections with the technology and the platforms that we use today in order to send out email. And over time, I just developed a larger team underneath me and it just kind of grew from there and had some really great successes, worked with some awesome clients. Had a chance to do everything from not only creative strategy, but also developing design systems for our clients to use to create efficiencies within their creative workflows.

Jason Witt:
And so, I think one of the philosophies that sort of carried me now into working at Oracle is that there’s so many ways for our teams to help our clients.

Jason Rodriguez:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jason Witt:
When you’re working at a large organization like Oracle and you’re in sort of a consulting role, I think a lot of times, when you’re working with a client, they might have an AOR, agency of record, or they’ll have an internal Creative Team. And I think it’s important for us to walk in and really be able to put our consultant hat on and be able to just say, “Hey, look, we’re an extension of your team. How can we help you?” And we help our clients in a variety of ways.

Jason Witt:
And I find that really rewarding because there’s some clients, we’ll dig in and we’ll do one or two campaigns. There’s other clients, we’ll help develop large design systems for their email programs. And then other folks that we have as retained clients that we work with every day, all day. So, it’s been a fun journey to get here. I’m really excited about being at Oracle and supporting the platforms and the services that we have to provide, but I’ve definitely worked with so many great people in the industry for a long time. And that’s been really great as well.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. Awesome. So, I’m kind of curious what your typical client base looks like at Oracle these days. Is it mostly on the retail side or are you doing a lot of B2B? What kind of folks are you working with?

Jason Witt:
Yeah. It’s interesting at Oracle because we have sort of this mix, right? We have two platforms. So we’ve got Responsys and then we also have Eloqua. And Eloqua tends to be more on that B2B side.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
And so, it’s a little bit more hands off with the Eloqua clients just because of the fact that they typically are smaller to mid-size companies. So, they most likely won’t engage in some of the more, I would say, costly services. They’re really kind of on lighter budgets when they’re working B2B. But we do have a fair amount of clients that we work with there to support their campaigns there.

Jason Witt:
And then on the Responsys side where it’s more B2C, we have everything from retail, financial services, hospitality, which has been a tough year.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
But we’ve worked with hospitality. We’ve had some rough times here. But financial services, technology companies, retail has been interesting over the last, I’d say six months. We’ve really been engaged with retail as they’ve shifted and sort of pivoted their business models to adapt to what’s going on in the world. So, we’ve had a fair amount of work in retail.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah, that sounds about right. I’m kind of curious is, are the retailers you’re working with, is everybody still kind of excited for the holiday push here and Black Friday, Cyber Monday and leading into Christmas time, or is there more trepidation around what the holidays are going to look like this year?

Jason Witt:
It’s interesting. We have some retailers that have definitely pulled back their volume a little bit, just kind of trying to be smart with where they spend their marketing dollars. And then, we have some other retailers who have seen great surges through COVID and have actually accelerated some of their programs. We’re working with one retailer that has four brands and they came to us looking for efficiencies for their creative workflow, for their design system. And they had to furlough folks even from their internal Creative Team. And so, we came into to try to help them optimize all of that. And in turn, towards the end of the Summer, they saw such a great surge in online retail. Now, they’re starting to ramp up again, getting ready for the holidays.

Jason Witt:
It’s so funny because every retailer, I think because of their niches are a little different-

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
… Where you might have somebody who’s appealing to an older audience versus a younger audience and those different audiences are engaging in just such different ways right now.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. That totally makes sense. So I know that Oracle, the consulting group is pretty large, so I’m sure you work with all kinds of people on the Oracle side, but what does your typical team look like when you help out these clients?

Jason Witt:
So typically, we will have, and this is pretty unique to my experience here at Oracle, we’ll have a very finite and strong, highly skilled and tenured team that consists of not only Creative and Development which I oversee, but also our Strategy Team is very robust and very tenured and it’s one of the best Strategy Teams I’ve been exposed to. And it’s definitely one of the strengths of our consulting group. Along with our Campaign Services Teams who are helping our clients daily get their campaigns out through our platform and really in the day-to-day with them, helping them manage their campaigns through our platforms. So, it’s really a mix of all of those folks.

Jason Witt:
And what’s also interesting too, on our Strategy Team, which has been super helpful is, we have folks who are focused on deliverability, analytics, overall just campaign strategy. And so that’s really helpful from a creative perspective, right? Because we can do creative strategy and creative storytelling, but being data-informed, having the insights from the experts in some of those other areas like deliverability is a huge advantage for us and our clients are really taking advantage of a lot of that right now. So, that’s what a typical team kind of looks like: I would say those four areas, creative development, campaign services and strategy.

Jason Rodriguez:
Nice. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about this partnership between Creative and Development in particular, because it’s one that you mentioned that you’re interested in. When we were emailing back and forth, kind of talking about doing the podcast, you said that it’s critical to blend those skill sets. And I feel like it’s something that we’ve seen… Litmus does a lot of research. We do our Big State of the Email every year, a big survey that goes out to thousands of marketers. And we’ve definitely seen those things siloed in a lot of companies. But in your experience, that seems like you need to blend Creative and Development. So, I’d love to hear from you about why that partnership in particular is so vital to successful companies.

Jason Witt:
Yeah, for sure. So I think for us, and in my experience, both here and at Epsilon, the shared philosophy around this having specialized skillsets that are able to focus on some of those challenges we see every day. On the Creative side, being able to connect and focus on the brand story, the creative storytelling and the messaging is critical for our clients. We typically will work with marketers. And so at the end of the day, they’re very focused on making sure their messages get out on time and they’re getting delivered to the right lists and they’re hitting their audiences. But then behind them, is often a brand team. And it’s really important to have a group of Creative folks who can focus not only on getting those messages right for the marketer, but also helping to deliver on brand and having that as a skillset, I think is critical to making sure that the storytelling is on point.

Jason Witt:
When it comes to the Development side. I think it’s critical to also have skillsets that allow that team to focus on some of the technology challenges that we see. Some of the stuff that I know you guys have covered recently over the last year when it comes to, let’s say new stuff like dark mode or-

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
… Things like that, that are always kind of popping up or AMP for email and those types of things. It’s great for us to have resources that are focused on solving those individual challenges for our clients because let’s face it, none of our clients are built exactly the same.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
Their audience mix is different. They’re looking at different KPIs. And so what’s been great is, as a matter of fact, I was having a discussion with some of my Development Team this morning, specifically around dark mode and a customer who was really kind of hounding us on this topic and wanting to get some answers and a point of view. And it really, it’s funny because from client to client, we’re finding that we’re coming up with unique challenges and then also unique solutions around some of those things. And then, pairing those two groups up together so that you can focus on those independent challenges I think is key.

Jason Witt:
It’s also great when we’re able to get in front of our clients and present an amazing creative idea. And that idea might include some sort of kinetic feature or tactic or real time messaging in some way. And we’ve come to the table, we share it with them. They’re like, “Okay, but can this happen?” Which they know this will happen because we’ve already vetted it out with our teams.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Witt:
Our teams are working in concert together and we don’t put something in front of our client that we don’t know we can already produce. And I think seeing that partnership and having that partnership and that assurance to our clients is critical. That way when we get to testing, it’s not falling on its face.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
Yeah. So, that’s been great. And so I always tell everybody, our Creative Team is working again, hand in hand with our Development Team. Our process is, we do a code review with our creative concepts and we have the ability to reach out to our Development Team members because we’re one big team and ask just off the cuff questions, like, “Hey, I’m thinking about doing this crazy thing.” Because you’re always looking to do some crazy thing that you’ve never done before. “I’m looking to do this crazy thing. Is this possible, or can we explore it?” Nine times out of 10, a developer’s like… they love those challenges.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. Totally.

Jason Witt:
They’ll want to dig into something like that. So, yeah. So, it’s really great that we have that advantage. I would say it’s an advantage, right?

Jason Rodriguez:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jason Witt:
To have both of those skillsets independent of one another and working in concert together. I’ve been to a few Litmus live events in my time. And I’ve talked with a bunch of other folks who have led some of the creative encoding efforts for other smaller agencies and larger agencies. And I know that there’s also, some folks have sort of a hybrid mix of a person where they’ll be a developer, but also creative. And so, it’s great to have that person for maybe a specific use, but what I have found is that we’ve had more success when we’ve been able to sort of split those skillsets up, again to what I said, because we can address different challenges differently rather than trying to put it all on one person. And I’m not saying that’s not a good way to be. I’m not saying that a developer and a creative person can’t be the same person. I think that absolutely can. And I think there’s situations where that’s an amazing solution. But for our client base, I think it works best when we have them sort of separated out and collaborating together.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. That makes sense. I feel like that’s kind of where I came from. Before Litmus, I worked at an agency, a small agency, but it was. I did both creative and development, especially when it came to email. This was almost a decade ago at this point, and just with the advances in email marketing technology and things like interactivity and amp and accessibility, all this stuff to have to worry about. And just the purely development side, I feel like it’s harder and harder for people that are tasked with both things to kind of keep up. So, I totally see the value of having those concentrations, but then everybody working in harmony together too.

Jason Witt:
Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
That’s a pretty good campaign.

Jason Witt:
Another interesting client relationship we have, I won’t mention who the client is, but they are a large pharmacy retailer, let’s just say.

Jason Rodriguez:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jason Witt:
They have an awesome internal Creative Team that focuses on all their email creative, but we meet with them once a month to just pow-wow about what’s going on in the industry. It’s also an opportunity for their Creative Team to be able to bounce ideas off of our Development Team because they don’t have that in-house.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
They have primarily a Creative group. And so, we’ve developed this relationship with them where we’re sort of augmenting that for them with our Development Team. So even though we might not be doing a lot of their creative, we’re helping them with their design systems, but they’re doing their campaigns every day. They’re able to touch base with our Development Team. And so, we’re sort of augmenting that. So, it’s just another illustration of how that’s working and how we’re also benefiting some of our clients in that way. So it’s a unique situation, but it’s really great. We love it.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. That sounds cool. So, I’d love to hear, kind of digging into the weeds a little bit, what does the process look like? You mentioned code reviews and having these kinds of meetings, these pow-wows, but what does that process for the collaboration between Creative and Development look like on a daily basis and maybe even digging into what tools your team uses to work through some of these questions and this process to document what you’re finding and kind of just make that work happen?

Jason Witt:
Yeah, for sure. So it’s interesting because, like I mentioned, we have different relationships with different clients.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
But some of the clients that we have that are our retained clients, we’re working day in and day out, we’ll usually have certain folks who we know are going to work on certain campaigns for certain brands all the time on the Creative side and the Development side. And so, those people are really sort of tuned into each other and it’s a super organic relationship internally. So as they’re moving through a project, there’s a lot of organic conversations that just sort of happen. And when you get into a situation where you’ve sort of got a nice design system, and you’re usually… we’re using modular email architecture for all of sends, it makes that… the discussions that are happening are kind of the edge cases versus the every day kind of, “Hey, we do this everyday kind of stuff.” It’s more of the specialty cases that are sort of on the edge and doing new things.

Jason Witt:
So as we go through the daily process, there is… we kick off a project, everybody gets word of it, we go through our design and creative process, and then it gets handed off to our Development Team. And there’s a schedule that exists. Typically, our team right now has been traditionally using Photoshop, but we’re definitely shifting. As an organization, Oracle has shifted to using Figma. So, we’ve explored moving into Figma. Our team is capable of using everything from XD to Sketch and Photoshop. It just depends on what our clients are using, to be honest. As you can imagine, some of those have more efficiencies than others.

Jason Rodriguez:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jason Witt:
So we’re working on sort of like, what do we want our take to be? So, we’re doing some exploration right now. But we’re definitely able to work in any of them. But so, yeah. Through a regular process, we have our timelines and we’ve got our regular touch bases. And as soon as our team hands stuff over to our Development Team, it’s pretty much in a place where there’s not a lot of questions because they have been having organic conversations all the way.

Jason Witt:
Now on something else where it’s sort of a one-off project, we will schedule those code reviews. We have to have a certain amount of time for our Development Team to be able to test things out.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
Yeah. We know what those are. And another interesting fact too is, it’s not just the… you have to bake in your creative time. You have to bake in your development and testing and QA time. And then, what we’re also doing is baking in time for our Campaign Services folks to get up to speed with what we’ve created, especially if it’s again, outside of a normal sort of business as usual campaign type. That allows them to get it up into our platform, be able to test on there and make sure everything’s good to go. So, you have to build in all those little parts and pieces in order for there to be success. So, we kind of learned our lesson over the last couple of years where if we didn’t bake in enough time, we were putting ourselves in a box.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. Where everybody gets stressed out. Yeah?

Jason Witt:
Yeah. Especially during holiday times.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. That sounds about right.

Jason Witt:
Yes.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. So, how would you say that culture kind of fits into this successful partnership? Is there anything you’re doing across your teams that I guess kind of culture-wise beyond those just kind of organic conversations to make things more successful?

Jason Witt:
I think it’s having a collection of folks that just like to work together.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
Honestly. Sometimes, it’s as simple as that. It’s just having empathy also, especially right now. I think empathy is something at Oracle that we’ve talked a lot about and I’m sure a lot of other companies are talking about it. But right now, and even before now, just making sure you’re pairing up folks who just genuinely like working together. Some folks are going to have differences of opinion here and there, but we try to keep it light. We try to keep it collaborative. We’ll do goofy things like happy hours and stuff like that where everybody’s keeping things light, but there’s definitely stressful days. There’s definitely stressful days. Knock on wood, I would say though, generally speaking, even with in light of how stressful it has been, I think the team has, in terms of culture, has really come together to be honest. And it’s been a really great thing to see.

Jason Witt:
I know organizationally, Oracle has done a lot this year in terms of, again, empathy, diversity and inclusion. So, I think that that’s been really helpful from a culture perspective. What’s interesting about our team too is that, even before COVID hit, we all generally kind of worked at home for the most part.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
So, we were all kind of used to the Zoom calls. And my team is spread from Seattle, Chicago to New York, so we’ve got folks in all parts of the country. I’m in Chicago, so most of us are here in Chicago, but we really were only going to the office one day a week. And so before this, we had figured out culturally how to sort of exist and how to be successful in light of working from home a lot. So, I would say that that sort of prepped us for kind of how it is today and keeping it flowing. Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
I guess that preempted my next question. It was around how a pandemic and then everything that’s gone on in 2020 has shifted those work habits, but it sounds like you’re… it’s similar, but with Litmus where we’re… we’ve always been remote first. So-

Jason Witt:
Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
… We were one of the fortunate companies in that on kind of on a practical level, our work day didn’t really change that much other than we have more family home for a lot of us. Take more frequent breaks to help them out with things and manage kids and stuff. But that’s good to hear.

Jason Witt:
I would say though what was great about going into the office one day a week was that not only do you get to see your team members, but I still, I guess I’m one of those tried and true, I like to whiteboard stuff with people, or I like to get in a room and hand stuff up on a wall. And even though technology allows us to do those things with virtual white boarding and stuff like that, that stuff exists, or bringing up a PDF and talking through it, there’s still something I miss about that tangible get together and-

Jason Rodriguez:
For sure.

Jason Witt:
… Printing stuff out, taping on the wall, going through stuff. I do miss that. And so, I’m looking forward to getting back to at least some of that at some point.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. What specific tools are you using these days then to kind of mimic that?

Jason Witt:
Well, we manage all of our projects through Reich, so that’s our new project management tool. And that’s been adopted just here over the last year. Before that, there was sort of a pre-baked Oracle solution. That was a little clumsy, but Reich fits our needs. And so, we’re having a lot of dialogue through that. There was some other white boarding. I’m trying to remember the whiteboard application that we used for a few brainstorms, but there’s a couple of them out there. I can’t remember it off the top of my head. But we would use those for brainstorming sessions and things like that. But it’s mostly through PDFs, mostly through just getting on the phone and doing some virtual brainstorming.

Jason Witt:
I think what’s also awesome about our group is I’m part of the larger experience agency inside of Oracle and we have some really intelligent facilitators that that’s all they focus on. And so, they’ve given us some really awesome tools to make facilitation and brainstorming successful. And so, we’ve been fortunate enough to have some of that instruction internally and it’s really made a big difference. Just simple things you can do even on a Zoom call like doing polling or doing some sort of… there is a whiteboard part of Zoom too, things like that. Or just in sort of the method of the whole brainstorming activity with sticky notes, virtual sticky notes, and parking lotting things and stuff like that, goofy stuff that you didn’t think about, but really super useful. So, we’ve been fortunate to be exposed and trained by some of those folks in our experience agency.

Jason Rodriguez:
That’s awesome. Yeah. It seems like a good place to be in when you do have those kinds of resources.

Jason Witt:
Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
So, yeah. We talked a little bit about Creative and Development teams working together in particular, but that’s obviously a small portion of the people that most folks are working with. So, I’d love to hear how you think those Creative and Development teams kind of work more effectively with people like strategists or analysts, anybody else that’s kind of touching the campaign, stakeholders, whoever that happens to be.

Jason Witt:
I would say the number one thing that’s helping us right now is having a disciplined design system that you’re working in. I think having an understanding how, one to develop a successful modular library that you can use for all your creative is really been key for us because it’s anticipatory of the creative messaging, it’s anticipatory of the development and sort of the level of effort that’ll go into any given campaign, but I think it’s also important and I could do a whole discussion just on these design systems, but I think it’s really important to make sure that those systems are evolutionary versus static. Because-

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
… Yeah. What we’re finding is, is that when we work with our clients to develop these systems, we’re meeting quarterly, whether that’s sun setting components that we weren’t using or creating new ones. So, I think it’s important to have an evolutionary design system that you guys are all sort of speaking from. And I have found that when we’re able to do that, the efficiency and the stress level goes down, the efficiency goes up, the stress level goes down because you’re working within a finite system of storytelling components.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s exactly what you want to happen: stress down, efficiency up.

Jason Witt:
Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
Everybody seems happier, more productive. Yeah.

Jason Witt:
Right. But then, honestly, then there’s those edge cases again, where you might want to try something new and having that system in place because you are efficient, you’re able to try those new things and not be really stressed out, right? And so from a strategy perspective, when the Strategy Team comes in and they’re like, “Hey, I think we should test out doing X, Y, or Z.” And we come up with some great creative and technology solution for that, we’re able to do that without the stress and without the hurry because we are disciplined in these other areas.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. That’s awesome.

Jason Witt:
Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
So, I am conscious of time here. I know I’m the first person to turn off podcasts when it goes a little bit too long, so I don’t want to scare people away, but I do have a couple more questions. The first one being, when we were emailing, you mentioned that this partnership is critical to enabling storytelling and innovation, all that kind of cool stuff. But I’d love to hear where you think or where you see the most innovation and email marketing these days. Is that more on the Creative side, more on strategy, personalization, fancy new tools? What’s really exciting you when it comes to innovation in email marketing?

Jason Witt:
So, I think the idea of personalization, so right message, right person, right time has been around for a while. And we’ve all been saying that, right? It’s not a different idea, but I think the tools and technology allow us to get there faster, better every day. So, I do believe that the personalized experiences is where it’s at, whether that’s through simple segmentation, we kind of bucket our personalized content into a few different categories. You could do some basic things, some moderate things and some super advanced stuff. So basic would be first name and a subject line, that kind of thing. Whereas advanced, you could be doing some AI machine learning language, predictive language, all these different things you can be doing. And honestly, there’s not a lot of people doing that super advanced stuff, right? Because of the financial investment that it takes and also, most companies maybe aren’t organized optimally to be able to take advantage of that quite yet, but I know they’re working towards it.

Jason Witt:
So for me, yes, it’s about personalized experiences, but I’m also seeing an increased need for inclusivity and accessibility. And I know that there’s a lot of… I’m sure you guys have done blogs and I’ve read your blogs on accessibility and the laws around accessibility and all that good stuff. But I would say one of the things that I’m looking to do with accessibility is also start talking about inclusivity and diversity as it relates to not just folks who have disabilities and being inclusive with folks who might be colorblind or have a permanent disability, but also inclusive to situational challenges and being more individual and people-focused when it comes to our storytelling design and what we’re asking folks to do. And not using technology to talk to people, but rather working through technology to make connections.

Jason Witt:
And so, that’s where I’m seeing where the personalization can kind of take it to the next level, because I do believe that even though technology is great and it will inform us to go left or right in some cases, it’s still important to be making those human connections and really focusing on the person and the end user versus focusing on the tech that’s getting us there. So, that’s my personal focus right now and seeing how we can get there and help our clients get there with that.

Jason Rodriguez:
That’s awesome. That sounds like a worthy goal to be pursuing. Anybody out there that’s sending really good campaigns? Have any favorite senders that you think people should check out?

Jason Witt:
Oh, boy. There’s so many great ones. And I admire so many that aren’t us. I think some of the smaller groups, not smaller groups, but some of the smaller brands or some of the folks who are using some of the smaller agencies are able to do some really cool stuff from a brand perspective, but kind of out there. So, I’m trying to think of some really cool ones that we’ve seen lately that we’ve admired. We tend to do a look book every year, but I’m thinking like Sonos, we really like those emails. I think those are really cool. They’re super clean. They’re very focused on their messaging and it’s really simple messaging. I love their emails.

Jason Witt:
I think from a retail perspective, Everlane does a really nice job.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. For sure.

Jason Witt:
And then of course, I like some of these emails that again, that really are focusing on personal goals. So, Fitbit’s always kind of had some cool emails where they’re capturing some of what you’ve done over the last month and things like that. So, really starting to measure personal goals and things like that that make those dashboards really come to life because those are things that people connect with. And so, I find that very cool. Again, that’s another example of where we’re using data to sort of work through it and give somebody something they care about. And so, yeah. Those are a few that I really like that I can think of-

Jason Rodriguez:
Awesome. Yeah.

Jason Witt:
… Off the top of my head.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah. I like all those too. Yeah. Fitbit’s kind of at the end of it, do like a weekly kind of wrap up of your activity and stuff, which can be good or bad. This year, it’s been pretty bad-

Jason Witt:
Yeah.

Jason Rodriguez:
… Week over week, but that’s 2020 for us. Cool, awesome. Well, where can people find you and some of your work online?

Jason Witt:
So, it’s funny because Oracle’s in the middle of… we’ve redone our website.

Jason Rodriguez:
Yeah.

Jason Witt:
So, what I would encourage people to do is seek out the CXM newsletter that we put out every month and that is something that we work on with Chad White who’s head of our Research Department. And there is ways to get in touch with us, hear about the things we’re talking about. Every month, there’s different topics and things like that. And so, a little plug, Chad will be happy about that. For the CXM newsletter, so if you just Google Oracle CXM Newsletter, you’ll find our archive page and our signup. And in there, you can also get in touch with us. If you’re interested in working with us or have questions, I’m happy to field those as well. And of course, anybody can always hit me up on LinkedIn.

Jason Rodriguez:
Awesome. Well thank you so much, Jason. It was fun chatting with you on kind of learning more about how teams should and can work better together and that kind of critical partnership between Creative and Development. So hopefully, yeah, we’ll have you back on at some point here and learn a little bit more about everything you’re doing, some of the cool work you’ve done coming up. Yeah. Thanks so much.

Jason Witt:
Yeah. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Jason Rodriguez:
Awesome. So again, Delivering is brought to you by Litmus. It’s the only platform trusted by professionals to help you send email with confidence every single time. Over 600,000 marketing professionals use Litmus’ tools to build, test and analyze better email campaigns faster. Just head over to Litmus.com to start your free seven day trial and start sending better emails today. And as always, be sure to subscribe to Delivering on iTunes or Spotify to listen to future episodes, and you can hit me up on Twitter, just use the hashtag DeliveringPodcast. Cheers.





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